vote

[FishaHallic]

I won't get into this anymore but to answer your quote "BTW....The Bush Marginal Tax cuts, which expire in 2010.....have helped stimulate 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS (Prior to 2008) of job creation. We have never, in the history had 52 months straight of job growth. Ever. " At what cost? Evidently the deficit means nothing to you but it does to me.

All that you posted and you still did not address the issue I keep posting about

[FishaHallic]

If the republican way of cutting taxes really works then look at this chart (yes another chart)

If the republican way of cutting taxes REALLY worked then these #s would be reversed, but the chart does not show this. If you think cutting taxes and passing them on to future generations is ok, then I don't know what else to say. I seem to remember several post on this thread where people blamed home owners for living beyong there means for this financial mess but somehow it's ok for your gov't to live beyond its means as long as it means less taxes you pay?

BTW, I am done with this thread

[Ken]

Dave.....

I've said this 3 times, but you don't seem to listen...so I'll say it one last time.

Bush's spending and increasing the deficit was his #1 failing...and THIS IS NOT, the Republican philosophy.

I know you're "done with it", because I've shot down every "theory" with factual numbers.

Take this to the bank Dave....Obama is going spend more, and tax more....so if you got a problem with the deficit.....you're going to have an even bigger problem.

The way you encourage job growth, is cheap money and more money into the pockets of people willing to create a business and hire someone! Period. Bush did that. What he failed...and failed miserably, is curb spending.

BTW...Now Obama wants to spend 50 billion, bailing out the auto industry. Bush said no.

And Clinton got lucky with the Internet Boom.

[Ken]

Mo Money!

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) called for "emergency and limited financial assistance" for the battered auto industry on Tuesday and urged the outgoing Bush administration to join lawmakers in reaching a quick compromise.

[FishaHallic]

Dave.....

I've said this 3 times, but you don't seem to listen...so I'll say it one last time.

Bush's spending and increasing the deficit was his #1 failing...and THIS IS NOT, the Republican philosophy.

I know you're "done with it", because I've shot down every "theory" with factual numbers.

Take this to the bank Dave....Obama is going spend more, and tax more....so if you got a problem with the deficit.....you're going to have an even bigger problem.

The way you encourage job growth, is cheap money and more money into the pockets of people willing to create a business and hire someone! Period. Bush did that. What he failed...and failed miserably, is curb spending.

BTW...Now Obama wants to spend 50 billion, bailing out the auto industry. Bush said no.

And Clinton got lucky with the Internet Boom.

I don't believe your theories are factual or they would not be theories. And to say they are actual facts then you need to work for the next president of the united states because it was NOT just GWs deficit spending going up it was also his daddies and Ronald Reagan but I guess they don't matter. If your theories were correct the republicans would be running less of a deficit than dems because that's how the republican theory is sold to the masses but it does not work.

[Ken]

I can't help the unwilling.

I told you interest rates are low (even though you said money was tight because of the deficit). So that was false.

You said home prices were low because the deficit causing the money supply to be tight. Interest rates are at historical low. Money is tight, due to high lending requirements and bank mismanagement. That is a known fact. So that's false.

You said the deficit caused the recession, and that Raising taxes will help. I proved 52 months of job growth, concurred precisely with low taxes.

You said the economy was stagnant, I proved it wasn't with data from the GDP for the last 20 years. So that's false.

What I agree with, is Gov't spending needs to be curtailed to lower the deficit. Unfortunately, Obama isn't going to do that. He's going increase spending. That's his FACT....he said he is.

Go pick up a macro economics book....and read it. You'll understand how it works a lot better. Dave, I took a year of economics in college, and I admit fully, I only understand it at a rudimentary level. It's extremely complicated, at the macro level.

What you'll understand is every action, has a consequence. Those consequences aren't open to debate...they are fact. What IS open to debate, is the degree that they are affected. That's what these guys/gals get paid boat loads of money to prognosticate.

[FishaHallic]

I never said the deficit caused the current economic crisis or the recession but I have said that it is part (P A R T) of the problem. No one thing can cause this big mess (except republicans ).

You have stated multiple times your theories/facts as of why the republican tax plan would be better and is better and I say better for who, certainly not this country. I'll say it again, if the republican tax plan was truly better, we have 20 yrs of republican administrations (I am only looking at Reagan and move forward from there) to look at and the deficit only goes up every year with a republican in office why is that? Could it be that the republican plan of cutting taxes on the wealthy does not create jobs like it says, does not create more tax revenue by the trickle down affect?

And before you try to "shoot down" like you seem to think your doing, the only reason I don't go further than Ronald Reagan is because at that time I was 20 yrs old (in 1980) and did not care too much about politics so I don't know what other administrations tax policies were. Oh yea, before you try to say I don't know current administration tax policies, well you might be right but I know THEY DON'T WORK.

[Kodiak]

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) called for "emergency and limited financial assistance" for the battered auto industry


wow i have been re-reading the book Atlas Shrugged by Anne Rand this weekend. the wording in the book is almost identical to what Nancy Pelosi just said!!!

Who is John Galt??

p.s. if you don't know what i am talking about read the novel. its very entertaining and enlightening

[Ken]

Your deficit is going up.

President-elect Barack Obama's plans to overhaul the U.S. healthcare system would cost the federal government $75 billion the first year but would provide health insurance for 95 percent of Americans, consulting firm PriceWaterhouseCoopers said on Wednesday.

This works out to about $2,500 per newly insured person, the firm said in a report.

"The plan would increase to $1 trillion cumulatively by 2018 or approximately $130 billion per year," the report said.

While the plan would extend health insurance to two-thirds of the 47 million people who currently lack it, the overhaul may worsen some problems, such as a shortage of primary care doctors, the analysis found.

"Unless costs are cut, growing health care costs will increase the costs of Obama's plan dramatically over time and reduce the effectiveness of mandates. This could make the federal costs unsustainably high," the report said.

"Because of the deficit and financial crisis, there's unlikely to be any new federal money available, so health reform may require reallocation of dollars already in the health system."

[Ken]

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) called for "emergency and limited financial assistance" for the battered auto industry


wow i have been re-reading the book Atlas Shrugged by Anne Rand this weekend. the wording in the book is almost identical to what Nancy Pelosi just said!!!

Who is John Galt??

p.s. if you don't know what i am talking about read the novel. its very entertaining and enlightening

I've heard of it.

[Ken]

You have stated multiple times your theories/facts as of why the republican tax plan would be better and is better and I say better for who, certainly not this country.

Dave...PLEASE...Go get educated on economic theories. This isn't a republican/Democrat thing. In order to make statements about issues, you need to understand what they mean. Not to be mean...but you don't.

What I've been trying to tell you...if you tax more, as you suggest to get rid of the deficit....THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. It's not a free ticket. You obviously don't know what they are...you'd be mentioning them as something you'd be willing to give up.

Like I said...I studied them for 1 whole year in college. I took 2 semesters! I would rate my skill level as high level beginner. So if I'm beginner....where does that leave you or the average American?

[Kodiak]

Seriously Ken you should read it. or better yet listen to it on cd when you drive. i love my ipod but my girlfriend and i were on a roadtrip this weekend and we both were so hooked on the book the ipod just sat in the glovebox.
also Fishoil i would recommend it to you too. it puts the consequences of a socialist government into very realistic terms.

[FishaHallic]

You have stated multiple times your theories/facts as of why the republican tax plan would be better and is better and I say better for who, certainly not this country.

Dave...PLEASE...Go get educated on economic theories. This isn't a republican/Democrat thing. In order to make statements about issues, you need to understand what they mean. Not to be mean...but you don't.

What I've been trying to tell you...if you tax more, as you suggest to get rid of the deficit....THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. It's not a free ticket. You obviously don't know what they are...you'd be mentioning them as something you'd be willing to give up.

Like I said...I studied them for 1 whole year in college. I took 2 semesters! I would rate my skill level as high level beginner. So if I'm beginner....where does that leave you or the average American?

I don't need to be educated like the education you get from Lush Rimbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly. The proof is in the pudding. When a republican gets into office the deficit goes up .....period. All I have heard from you is the republican line with no and I mean NO PROOF it works. The republican way of cutting taxes, borrowing money from future generations is just plain stupid. If they can cut taxes and balance the budget I and almost any one else would be all for it but they can't. You can spout off about how dumb I am and the american people are but that won't change the fact that your/the republican tax plan sucks. Like I said earlier we have 20 yrs of republican administrations to look at and the trend for all of them is higher deficits every yr.

Once again I wish people did not post political stuff on here for this reason. On this thread you basically told me I don't know what I am talking about, you said I believe something that I don't and you called me uneducated. Meanwhile I have said nothing about you but that is how it normally goes when you try to talk politics which I was not trying to do but I can't let the republican scare machine go without being answered.

[DAVE]

I wish Terry was still around, he would love this thred.

what would Terry say??? (wwts)

can't we all just get along.

It might be time to agree to disagree.

[Ken]

I don't listen to Rush, I listen to the Boneyard. And I watch ESPN....I don't pay attention to any of those guys.

I hate to break it to you, but economics isn't a "republican" thing. It's economics...it has no political leaning.

And telling you to go read something, isn't a personal attack. If you told me there was a good book to read to that explained your position...I'd want to know what it was.

But hey...that's me.

Where is Terry....Jeesh.


I guess you forgot all about Jimmy Carter. Prime was 19%, no one could buy a house, unemployment at all time highs....but HEY...the deficit was lower. LOL. Everything has consequences.....you're focusing on 1 thing. Unfortunately, the economy is more complex than just the deficit. We could pay off the deficit in a few years.....but you wouldn't like the consequences.

When Jimmy Carter took office in 1976.
December 13, 1976 6.25%

When Jimmy Carter Left office in 1980
January 2, 1981 20.50%

Could you afford a home loan at 21%?


At the end of Reagan's first term.
January 15, 1985 10.50%


Fawking republicans...LOL