CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby GrizzlyGuy » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:13 am

The road into Bowman Lake is now seasonal from where the pavement ends and people usually park (my BOWDIRT waypoint):

Image

It's only open June 1 - November 1. No biggie for me as my Grizzlies are usually snowbound until at least June 1st, but you guys can ride earlier than me in the spring.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby GrizzlyGuy » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:35 pm

Ken wrote:We have to appeal the Washington road...this will wipe out the summer economy of Washington!! HUNDREDS of atv and UTV riders camp at the grounds, stay at the hotel...eat there. Think about our group?? Well over $100 in 1 day....multiply that by many groups during the summer.
Before you write your appeal, be sure to read this from the FEIS:
The California Vehicle Code (CVC). The CVC regulates the use of motor vehicles in California, including motor vehicles used on the national forests. The CVC sets safety standards for motor vehicles and vehicle operators. It defines the safety equipment needed for highway-legal and non-highway-legal vehicles. It also defines the roads and trails where non-highway-legal motor vehicles may be operated…

NFTS roads are each maintained in one of three categories: Maintenance Level 1 roads closed to motor vehicles in long term storage (closed roads), Maintenance Level 2 roads maintained for high-clearance vehicles only (high clearance roads), and Maintenance Level 3 to 5 roads maintained for standard four-wheel passenger cars (passenger car roads). Those roads maintained for standard passenger cars are subject to the Highway Safety Act and are considered by the Forest Service to be highways for purposes of the California Vehicle Code (CVC)…
Then read: California Vehicle Code Section 38026 Designating Highways Combined Use

The forest service's hands are basically tied by CA state law (VC 38026) on a lot of these roads. Unless it is 3 miles long or less, AND the crash probability and crash severity ratings are both low... they can't designate it for mixed use unless they lower the maintenance level to 1 or 2.

FS 21 going to Washington is 10.03 miles long with high/high risk ratings, per their Appendix J (in the SDEIS Appendices folder if you got a disk in the mail). I don't know what the maintenance level is on it, but I imagine it is a big smooth road that is at least level 3. To make it mixed use, they would have to lower it down to 2, and they might not want to even consider doing that if it gets a lot of traffic from normal cars. The high/high risk ratings suggest it does get a lot of traffic.

Meadow Lake road is in the same category. Dunno, maybe they would consider lowering the maintenance level since it basically turns crappy when it transitions to county road a few miles before you reach the lake.

I am going to write an appeal for a few other roads because I see no reason why they can't change the designation on the whole road or at least a segment of them that gets me from point A to point B.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Ken » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:25 pm

I'm going to call David and ask him. He's the guy who did a lot of these maps.

It may be a case of, nobody is going to enforce Washington. Hell... you hit pavement there, and the whole town embraces OHV riding through town (as long as your cool).
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Ken » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:25 pm

What I want to do before the snow...is film the switchback trail...to document it. Sad.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby roon101 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:45 pm

tell me where to send the letter i am IN!
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby GrizzlyGuy » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:58 pm

Ken wrote:What I want to do before the snow...is film the switchback trail...to document it. Sad.
Yes! Document it while we still can.

You should see what I'm cooking up: a plan to write the best appeal(s) that the forest service has ever seen. I'm going to go out to some of my favorite trails over by Prosser Dam (that were either omitted entirely or designated for motorcycles only) and shoot video, snap pictures, and basically collect all the info I'd need to make a mini-documentary showing them that they need to designate them as "Trails Open to ATV and Motorcycle Only". Some of these are beautiful, pure 2-tracks that are as good as any in Utah's Paiute system. They are narrow and a blast, we don't have many of these in TNF (other than maybe the switchback trail, and it is wide in comparison).

Here they are, the water at the top is Stampede Reservoir:

Image

I think they flat-out made a mistake on the map in this next one. The road they left off is the only way to connect from the Prosser Hill area, across Prosser Creek (via the most solid and overbuilt bridge you'll see in the forest), and into the Sagehen Hills area. This road was recently upgraded to almost a superhighway for logging, so it makes no sense that it would be missing (MUST have been a mistake):

Image

And, I'm going to shoot some video and take pictures of Carpenter Valley Road (my 5-minutes-away trailhead) so that I can hopefully convince them to open a short segment of it to ALL vehicles instead of just street-legal. They don't need to lower the maintenance level since this short segment is much less than 3 miles long. They just need to accept my argument (which is true) that this particular section of the road has no blind turns, no cliffs, no banks to smack, etc. That would let them set the risk to low/low and open it. They did this a few other times in the FEIS, such as opening a short segment of Bear Valley Road to everyone.

It should be fun to get out the video gear again. :)
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby hemingray » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:50 am

GrizzlyGuy wrote:FS 21 going to Washington is 10.03 miles long with high/high risk ratings, per their Appendix J (in the SDEIS Appendices folder if you got a disk in the mail). I don't know what the maintenance level is on it, but I imagine it is a big smooth road that is at least level 3.
What's interesting about that one is that yes, it's big and smooth down below, but the upper part gets a little sporty for cars.
Ken wrote:What I want to do before the snow...is film the switchback trail...to document it. Sad.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Ken » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:51 pm

Ok.

I talked to Dave at TNF...at least he gave me the scoop...and he was really nice.

1) Switchback trail was removed because it was just too steep. By routing it, it would have put them on the line for trying to maintain something that's pretty much unmaintainable.

2) In return for dropping Switchback...they reduced the level for Rattlesnake to allow OHV...which really made Sierra Industries upset.... as I told Dave...if Everyone is upset about something, they probably did a pretty good.

3) Washington was always NO OHV, this just enforces it. The reason is, too narrow and too many blind corners for OHV and regular traffic.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby GrizzlyGuy » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:20 pm

Ken wrote:Ok.

I talked to Dave at TNF...at least he gave me the scoop...and he was really nice.

1) Switchback trail was removed because it was just too steep. By routing it, it would have put them on the line for trying to maintain something that's pretty much unmaintainable.

2) In return for dropping Switchback...they reduced the level for Rattlesnake to allow OHV...which really made Sierra Industries upset.... as I told Dave...if Everyone is upset about something, they probably did a pretty good.

3) Washington was always NO OHV, this just enforces it. The reason is, too narrow and too many blind corners for OHV and regular traffic.
Good info. I'm up to 107 pages on my appeal, more to go, so I'll skip Switchback Trail. Most of the pages are map segments and photos of various trails that they should have designated but didn't. Here is my favorite part so far, talking about some big, gigantic, recently improved roads that they somehow left out:
These routes are important as they provide the only legal means for non-street-legal OHVs to connect from the Prosser Hill OHV area, across the Forest Service’s bridge on Prosser Creek, and on into the Sagehen Hills area. Without these routes, the Forest Service’s bridge will become ‘a bridge to nowhere’. Note that this route is also part of the winter snowmobile route that runs north from Prosser Hills OHV staging area.
:P

I'm heading out tomorrow to shoot more pictures and video of a bunch of trails over in the Boca/Stampede area that will be no more if the FEIS stands. One happens to be the trail that I got a flat on. Flat or no flat, I still love that trail and we need to keep it. :)
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Mr. Green » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:38 pm

im glad to see people doing something instead of complaining. I better stop there or all sound like im complaining 8) .
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Ghost Rider » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:33 pm

You guys are really getting screwed by the forest service and tree huggers, What are some of there reasons for closing these trails that have been used for years by ATV riders and others ?.
Maybe im stupid or something, but what gives them the right to say we can`t use the trails and roads that have been established and used for years and years.

It makes me glad i no longer live in in the peoples republic of california.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby Ken » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:45 am

What gives them right?

Voters. Voting in liberals who don't want people with motors on public lands.

The USFS holds authority for forest land and BLM hold authority over non-forested land.

Region 5 (most of western US) is the worst.
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Re: CLOSED TNF Trails - Ride Them While You Can!

Postby hemingray » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:25 am

So after all is said and done, after Eric's 107 page manifesto (did he ever submit it?), not a whole lot is changed out there. Sometimes I think that after the greenies dragged the FS through the whole process, it's half-heartedly done (look at the maps to see what half-hearted means) and things just continue like they did before. It's kinda fun reading all these old posts.
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