Just a thought

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Kendo
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Just a thought

Postby Kendo » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:58 am

As we were riding this weekend up at Boca, and running into yet another dead end, it occured to me - with all this experience and knowledge, why don't we make up a better set of maps, GPS coordinates and even pictures tied with the above for riding??

My GPS has the capability of storing pictures with waypoints and I am sure others do as well. Not to mention, some of the roads/trails that are on the FS maps might be there, but they're either under used and impassable, or in our case, turn to non-motorized use halfway down the frickin trail (stupid BS if you ask me).

A map of the area showing exactly what trails are open, pictures of the trail (to so difficulty level) and GPS coordinates would be real handy. I know there are several on this site that could contribute a lot of information.

Thoughts?

P.S. Sure would go a long way in cataloging the trail system and better preparing us for when these initiatives pop up.
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Postby oldtrucks » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:45 pm

Really not a bad idea Kendo. I know the first few times I go somewhere I try any road that looks like it might go somewhere. I've found some pretty interesting things and gotten myself into trouble doing it, Mr. Bill can attest to both. Dead ends suck, especially after investing an hour or more

The biggest problem is the variety of GPS units and software out there. I have a Magellan, a Garmin, and a Lowrance I use offroad. All use different programs and save data in different proprietary formats. Even the different GPS' in any given line use different software.

There are some very good programs that can convert anything into anything, just takes time. GPS Visualizer being my favorite. If everyone can edit their routes and tracks, get rid of their confused or dead end tracks so to speak. Convert and Save as a GPX file then the next guy can covert it to whatever format he needs. We just need a forum and we can get started.
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Postby Kendo » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:18 am

We can always convert everything to KMZ so Google Earth recognizes it too. I think you can find a program out there that will convert KMZ to pretty much any format as well.

I would probably leave the dead ends and just put a wayoint on there stating that's what they are. Some dead ends have some cool scenary as well.

One of the ones we ran into this weekend is actually a trail, shows on the map, but because of no maintenance and non use, it is now a dead end. Which brings up another point and that's trail adoption. This one was pretty cool, and I think would be worthy of cleaning/clearing up. With good information and maps, we could compare with USFS information and maybe find some long lost trails. :)
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Postby oldtrucks » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:36 am

Kendo wrote: One of the ones we ran into this weekend is actually a trail, shows on the map, but because of no maintenance and non use, it is now a dead end.
that sounds like the Merrill Creek trail heading into Jones Valley from Henness Passs, Goes along then just stops, GPS and maps show it going through on both ends but no way through right now.

It would be easy enough to have the database of trails in .GPX, .KMZ, and .KML. GPX seems to be the Switzerland of GPS formats. Once I get it to .GPX i can convert it back to almost any format, even the Magellan Explorist. I haven't gone backwards from .KMZ with much luck, but I can get there with no problems
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Postby hemingray » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:18 am

I've been thinking the same thing - how can we have a collective database of sorts of places to start from etc. For instance, I want to explore a little area around LaPorte, down to St. Louis and French something-or-other, but I don't know where I could park, etc. It's a little hard to want to set out on a long drive only to find you can't access it or no parking, etc.

GrizzlyGuy has a million waypoints and tracks - his would be a cool addition!

I agree that .gpx would be the best format, since most things can read and save that format.
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Postby Kendo » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:55 am

oldtrucks wrote:that sounds like the Merrill Creek trail heading into Jones Valley from Henness Passs, Goes along then just stops, GPS and maps show it going through on both ends but no way through right now.
Too far over, it's actually on the east side of Dog Valley, goes up into this neat little canyon following a "creek" and because of a couple of slides in past years, is now impassable. I thought about heading in from the other side to see how far I could go that way and then decide how much work it would take to punch all the way thru. Turning around was a bit skiddish, since it turned into a very narrow 2 track and there's a nice 100 foot dropoff to the creek. Not a single tree to slow you down either. :lol:

OK, so I will make it a point to start catalogging all my junk and converting to GPX files. I'll add waypoints (which I don't normally do) for the important stuff, like turns and such. For those with the new Tritons, I can put the pics in there too, just need to get it all packaged up.

Maybe Kenny G can make us a directory accessible under the Trails section where we can store the GPX files. He kinda started it so I think it needs a bit of dust blowing off and we'll be good to go.

And yes, GG has a butt ton of stuff. :D
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Postby Ken » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:01 pm

If you want to update the trails page.....I'll give you access. I started doing it....and just ran out of steam.
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Postby traildad » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Is it possible to put the track there for download by others?
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Postby Kendo » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:19 am

traildad wrote:Is it possible to put the track there for download by others?
That's my goal. 8)
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Postby oldtrucks » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:27 am

OK, if anyone has a trail or track they would like to share send it to me. Doesn't matter what file type, I'll get it into a .gpx for sharing. Just tell me what the format is or type of GPS it was generated from and I think I can take it from there.

I have a host to store them on where anyone can get in and download. We can get a "Read only" section within "Trails" section that will have a general description, a link to the .gpx, a click on link to Google Earth, and Google Earth jpg for quick reference.

When you send the file give a brief description, ride highlights, and difficulty rating, 1 (I took Grandma and her Lark) to 10 (have a medic and helo on standby)
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Postby oldtrucks » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:09 pm

This is just a test, see if you can download the .gpx the way I'm storing it. Right click on the link below and "Save link As.....", I think I finally figured out the code

Right Click to Download the LTS Loop

Images would/could appear like this

Image
Image
Last edited by oldtrucks on Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby traildad » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:47 pm

I was able to download it via right click "save link as". I converted it to MapSend and loaded it into Topo 3D. That works for me.
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Postby GrizzlyGuy » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:07 am

Kendo wrote:And yes, GG has a butt ton of stuff. :D
Why yes I do, and I'm happy to share. :)

I have tracks from every ATV ride that I've ever done archived in GPX files. I take the tracks and convert them into actual maps that load into my Garmin GPS. I color-code the roads and trails based on difficulty or road importance/size.

These maps can then be loaded into Garmin GPS units via Garmin's MapSource software. My maps have transparent backgrounds, meaning that the colored trails float above the normal MapSource topos that you load. This makes riding much easier. Follow the colored lines and you don't get lost.

For example, if you had my TahoePlumas map loaded in your Garmin, this is what you would see, but the topo background would be Garmin's instead of this one from ExpertGPS:

Image

The colored lines come from my map, which in turn usually come from actual ride tracks so they are spot-on.

I leave the waypoints off the maps so that they just include the colored lines. I now have over 4200 waypoints in my database (another GPX file) and I just load a subset covering the area I intend to ride into my GPS when I head out.

If anyone wants copies of my actual GPS maps, I can make them available for download. They work in Garmin mapping GPS units like the 60CSx. You need a copy of Garmin MapSource to load them into your unit.

If anyone wants to turn their own tracks into Garmin GPS maps, I wrote up a how-to guide. It is kind of a geekish process (you end up using a couple different freeware programs) but isn't too bad.

If anyone wants to share their ride tracks so that I can turn them into maps for areas where I've never been, that would be nifty-swell too. I get lost easily without the magic colored lines. I just need the tracks in GPX file format and I'm good to go. :D
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Postby RobG » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:12 am

I save the tracks from all of my rides too.

What's really helped me though, is my new GPS -- a Delorme PN-40 SE. It allows you to download and store in it, actual USGS 7.5' topographical maps. That way you can see if there are trails, when most of the vector-based maps from Garmin (and even Delorme) don't show them.

What I'm hoping to do in the next year, or less, is add a Netbook to my travel gear. They're small enough that I can get a padded metal case for it, and carry my actual Maptech Terrain Navigator maps with me, since it's much easier to plan rides or find alternate routes on a larger screen. Right now I'm just waiting on the next-generation of Netbooks to come out (around Christmas). Gateway has one right now that's almost perfect. If it had built-in Bluetooth, I'd be set.

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Postby GrizzlyGuy » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:35 am

RobG wrote: What's really helped me though, is my new GPS -- a Delorme PN-40 SE. It allows you to download and store in it, actual USGS 7.5' topographical maps. That way you can see if there are trails, when most of the vector-based maps from Garmin (and even Delorme) don't show them.
I've found that even the good topo maps are often inaccurate for what we're doing. They either don't show our trails, or they show trails that don't exist. I can't count how many times I've set out to ride one of the "jeep trails" they show, then find out it doesn't exist. There's nothing like having maps based on data from feet (er, wheels) on the ground collecting actual tracks.
RobG wrote: What I'm hoping to do in the next year, or less, is add a Netbook to my travel gear. They're small enough that I can get a padded metal case for it, and carry my actual Maptech Terrain Navigator maps with me, since it's much easier to plan rides or find alternate routes on a larger screen.
Hah! You sound like me. Yup, sometimes you need a computer with real mapping software. Here I am on day 3 of a 5-day ride in Utah using my Panasonic Toughbook to figure out where the he** we are and where the he** we're going next:

Image

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